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Hull fairing around saildrive

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Mad Max View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 November 2017 at 7:29pm
I replaced the sail drive bladder on Mad Max.  Here is a picture showing removing the old 3M weather stripping.  You can see it is firmly attached to the hull.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskqQ79Eq
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2017 at 5:48pm
the Bostik 1685 still holding strong too  , I paid about 90 bucks for a liter delivered to the door  - enough to do a dozen boats but I hear it has gone way up in price .  One issue with using untried stuff is the cost of a mid season lift out to fix it , but it sounds like we have a few good options now . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2017 at 7:49pm
Ditto here.  I used 3M weatherstrip and the rubber membrane is still on solid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bal149 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2017 at 5:34pm
Well the season is over and the boat was hauled out today. I had not expected the 10$ Lepage contact cement would last, but the rubber skin was still tightly fixed to the hull. It had been applied in cool .Beats paying 250$ for the Bostik
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:41pm
I think the emerging theme here is that there are several high quality contact cement adhesives that seem to do the trick.  LePage and 3M Weatherstrip being two of them.  Surface prep and proper application appear to be the key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 9:55pm
Yikes - went expensive ? Who quoted that price to you ? Anyway two years in and its still on solid with the  1685MC,  .  Good luck with the 3m stuff, I hear some people have success with it.  I had thought of buying a can of the 1685 and doling it out to everyone who needs it  but the stuff expires . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bal149 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 3:30pm
Picked some up at Canadian Tire. Reviews to follow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 8:07am
I found this stuff on Amazon.ca and tried it and it works quite well. The only difference between this stuff and the the real glue from Bukh is that it dries much faster. So much so that it dried tack free after 10 minutes the two parts would not stick together at all. I re-activated the glue on both surfaces with Lacquer thinner and it stuck great. After 24 hrs I stuck my hand in the well and grabbed the edge of the rubber and tried to pull it off and it wouldn't budge. I did some tests also and left it submerged and water had no effect on it. 

This stuff says it's waterproof, which the original stuff from Denmark did not state. 

https://www.amazon.ca/LePage-Heavy-Contact-Cement-1504724/dp/B019GISV8Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1494936063&sr=1-1&keywords=LePage+Heavy+Duty+Contact+Cement

Charles, yes if you sand the surface you intend to glue very well on the rubber it should re-glue fine. I use 80 grit on a random orbital sander to do this.


Edited by Bill Layton - 18 May 2017 at 8:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 9:14pm
I've been using 3M Weather strip adhesive with good success.  Clean the surfaces as good as you can.  The cleaner the better.  I've used scrapers, sandpaper and a final wipe down with Acetone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 5:01pm
I re-applied my membrane last Fall using 3M weatherstrip adhesive.  I used the old membrane but was sure to remove all previous glue residue and I obviously sanded the hull as well.

All I can say so far is that the glue held up over the winter.  I checked it before I launched last weekend and that membrane is on good and tough.  We'll see how it holds up underwater.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bal149 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 4:18pm
So I went off to TecNTec to purchase a litre of glue. Bostik 1685. Pricey at 93.00$ But WAIT! Bostik increased the price as of May first- 225.00 plus tax!!!! WHOA. If the 3m Weatherstrip has held up on those using it I will try this . Can I use it on a previously glued membrane?

Edited by bal149 - 15 May 2017 at 4:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WarBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2016 at 9:30am

when I did WarBird #169 back in 02 or 03 it was part of a complete bottom job. VC Tar off, Interprotect 2000 on. Boat prep is part psychology. The other guy gets worried when he see all the time and effort YOU put into your boat. Fairing and filling and longboarding as the competitors walk by in the yard get them wondering. My saildrive gasket was sh*t but the previous owner had a new one and the bukh glue in the parts kit. I put a 45 degree bevel around the perimeter of the gasket perhaps more for the "wow" factor than actual flow in that area of the hull. I think I did that carefully on a belt sander feeding it carefullly by hand. When we had 5 L28s racing, WarBird was always at or near the front.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2016 at 11:21am
This glue is the same kind one would use to glue a linoleum counter top on but more waterproof  . A contact cement . It should be dry when you stick the two together . For the hull you want to be gluing to the gel coat or epoxy paint  , not a bottom paint or old glue scuffed up . 

Not sure about the temp, but it will tell you on the can . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2016 at 9:43pm
Actually it's not too cold to apply this. I've done it at Zero Celsius a few times without problems. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2016 at 9:06pm
My method for the installation is described on page one of this thread.  In reviewing this, I see a couple of things I may have done wrong:

1) I did not sand the rubber membrane prior to applying the glue (I did sand the hull but perhaps should have even used something a bit grittier at the end)

2) It was a cool day (don't remember exactly).  A warmer day in the mid teens or above seems to be preferred for this type of glue

3) When applying, I did not wait for the glue to dry before pressing the pieces together.  I think I waited until they are a bit tacky and that was it.  But Bill mentions above (and I've seen this elsewhere) to wait until the glue is all but dry before pressing the pieces together.  Counterintuitive, but I guess that's that.

It's too cold here now to apply this stuff so it looks like I need to wait until spring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2016 at 7:24pm
The original glue used from BUHK is some form of waterproof contact cement. I've installed dozens of these rubbers and they glue so well they are virtually impossible to remove without tearing the rubber apart into pieces. However when I install a rubber, I sand the rubber surface and hull surface well and coat both sides with glue and let it dry tack free before I push the rubber into place. Then I use a roller to roll out the rubber as hard as I can push on it. This is the typical method used when using contact cement. I see many owners suffering the same problem as you folks but it's clear your missing one of these steps. I've never ever been able to remove a rubber I installed without the help of a heat gun (which one must be very careful using) When I hear stories of how the corner didn't stay glued etc I'm certain the standard protocol for using contact cement hasn't been followed. Most rubbers installed at the factory lasted 15 years or more and they only got replace because the rubber cracked around the leg... it did not become unglued. 

Edited by Bill Layton - 18 October 2016 at 7:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2016 at 5:40pm
Chris

I've been using 3M Super Weatherstrip adhesive with no problems.  Get is at any Auto Supply store.  I know of other people are using it on their sail drive units.  When was the last time you ripped off your weather stripping opening  frozen car door in the middle of winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2016 at 5:04pm
After consideration, I'm going to try re-gluing the original rubber membrane.  After haul out the membrane was still attached but I was able to peel it off easily by hand.

In another post someone mentioned gluing it on and then using some small screws to provide further adhesion.  Seems reasonable to me...

Bostik 1685MC works well according to John but is hard to get.  Only place in Canada that sells it is Tec-N-Tec in Montreal but they charge a ridiculous amount for both the product and shipping.  Krayden in the USA will sell a quart for $34.50 USD so it looks like that is the best option..... unless anyone has found any other high quality waterproof contact cement that works?  I've read that Dap Weldwood contact cement works good for general use.  How about LePage contact cement available at any Home Depot?  It's listed as "water resistant" which is not encouraging but LePage is a good company.  They make Loctite after all...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2016 at 9:11pm
Excellent news .  did you get it in writing ?  I agree that it will make little to no difference to speed and is why I would never take a hit for it . Technically it does not meet the definition of a "standard boat" that being ""Standard Equipment" shall be what the manufacturer supplied. " according to PHRFlo sec 4.3. 

 PHRF is traditionally pretty picky what you do below the water line , nice to see they officially waved this .  PHRF is not a club thing after all , your certificate covers the area you sail in , across all clubs .  

Now to be clear this is something that if you do you are supposed to report it , the rule being " Changes that alter either the weight of the boat *or the flow of water over wetted surfaces such as size, shape, contour, length, materials*, weight, location, center of gravity, etc."   "Materials"  is what it says  and flow over whetted surfaces  .

Don't get me wrong , I don't think it makes any more difference to speed than carrying beer and ice , just don't want to run afoul of the rules.  


Maybe now the class can approve it ? 


Edited by John Mills - 30 September 2016 at 9:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2016 at 12:51pm
Here's our rating chairperson's answer.  Note that different clubs may take a different position.

"I don't think a 1/8 inch reduction of frontal surface will affect form drag significantly enough to warrant a penalty. From pics online of the Bukh shaft seal it is tapered to maintain laminar water flow over the surface. Removing that and going flush with the hull will slightly improve flow but it is around a vertical shaft that generates the majority of the form drag. The seal is negligible in the overall drag of the saildrive lower unit. No penalty."
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